<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Epic versus episodic&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://laurelsnyder.com/2009/06/27/epic-versus-episodic/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://laurelsnyder.com/2009/06/27/epic-versus-episodic/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:56:33 -0500</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Gemini</title>
		<link>http://laurelsnyder.com/2009/06/27/epic-versus-episodic/comment-page-1/#comment-2457</link>
		<dc:creator>Gemini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 05:12:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurelsnyder.com/?p=436#comment-2457</guid>
		<description>I had been thinking about the Harry Potter vs. magic books I loved to read as a child as well! Nina Beachcroft (Wishing People, Cold Christmas), Diana Wynne Jones books, Roald Dahl, Alan Davidson&#039;s The Bewitching of Alison Allbright which I just reread with my daughter isn&#039;t magic at all but the height of fantasy. And so many ghost stories that I don&#039;t even remember. E. Nesbitt&#039;s books, and Eleanor Farjeon&#039;s The Little Bookroom. In all of these books, the magic was commonplace, an extension of life, of my own imagination, and what I remembered and took away from these were the characters and their emotions, which is probably what these &quot;bigger&quot; books take away from. This current fascination with epic fantasies, good vs. evil, somehow don&#039;t extend the reader&#039;s own creativity and emotions, which is why, even though this category includes favorites like C.S.Lewis&#039;s Narnia books, so many people who read them (or worse, watch the movies!) relate to the magic and fantasy in these books so completely differently. I wonder how these two categories affect us differently? For myself, finding these books again with my daughter made me feel really good that I do like fantasy and magic after all, and that these are such important parts of our imaginations, books that you can read and reread again right away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had been thinking about the Harry Potter vs. magic books I loved to read as a child as well! Nina Beachcroft (Wishing People, Cold Christmas), Diana Wynne Jones books, Roald Dahl, Alan Davidson&#8217;s The Bewitching of Alison Allbright which I just reread with my daughter isn&#8217;t magic at all but the height of fantasy. And so many ghost stories that I don&#8217;t even remember. E. Nesbitt&#8217;s books, and Eleanor Farjeon&#8217;s The Little Bookroom. In all of these books, the magic was commonplace, an extension of life, of my own imagination, and what I remembered and took away from these were the characters and their emotions, which is probably what these &#8220;bigger&#8221; books take away from. This current fascination with epic fantasies, good vs. evil, somehow don&#8217;t extend the reader&#8217;s own creativity and emotions, which is why, even though this category includes favorites like C.S.Lewis&#8217;s Narnia books, so many people who read them (or worse, watch the movies!) relate to the magic and fantasy in these books so completely differently. I wonder how these two categories affect us differently? For myself, finding these books again with my daughter made me feel really good that I do like fantasy and magic after all, and that these are such important parts of our imaginations, books that you can read and reread again right away.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Zalmond</title>
		<link>http://laurelsnyder.com/2009/06/27/epic-versus-episodic/comment-page-1/#comment-2401</link>
		<dc:creator>Zalmond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 03:20:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurelsnyder.com/?p=436#comment-2401</guid>
		<description>I see that you are from the magical land of Baltimore, MD! Knight&#039;s Castle was the first Eager book I found and I will never forget it. It must have been a fascinating place to grow up, the &quot;sky flaming with the orange of many steel forges, while in the black iron foundries below 859,100 dark figures labored, all wearing straw hats.&quot; One day I may visit, only because I know that somewhere, around some corner, I may still find Sherwood Forest.

It&#039;s wonderful to simply see the names of all these books that I loved, still love, so much. I&#039;m always a bit surprised that other people have read these books, I still have the feeling that these were my own private worlds. Nesbit, Corbett, Norton, so many of my favorites are mentioned here already. One book that comes to mind that I haven&#039;t seen mentioned is &quot;The 13th is Magic,&quot; by Joan Howard (1950). It doesn&#039;t completely have the &quot;common magic&quot; feeling of many of the others, it&#039;s a bit dream-like, but it still sits on my shelf right next to all the others. If I think of any others I&#039;ll write.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see that you are from the magical land of Baltimore, MD! Knight&#8217;s Castle was the first Eager book I found and I will never forget it. It must have been a fascinating place to grow up, the &#8220;sky flaming with the orange of many steel forges, while in the black iron foundries below 859,100 dark figures labored, all wearing straw hats.&#8221; One day I may visit, only because I know that somewhere, around some corner, I may still find Sherwood Forest.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s wonderful to simply see the names of all these books that I loved, still love, so much. I&#8217;m always a bit surprised that other people have read these books, I still have the feeling that these were my own private worlds. Nesbit, Corbett, Norton, so many of my favorites are mentioned here already. One book that comes to mind that I haven&#8217;t seen mentioned is &#8220;The 13th is Magic,&#8221; by Joan Howard (1950). It doesn&#8217;t completely have the &#8220;common magic&#8221; feeling of many of the others, it&#8217;s a bit dream-like, but it still sits on my shelf right next to all the others. If I think of any others I&#8217;ll write.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kate Coombs</title>
		<link>http://laurelsnyder.com/2009/06/27/epic-versus-episodic/comment-page-1/#comment-2352</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate Coombs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:57:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurelsnyder.com/?p=436#comment-2352</guid>
		<description>I love the four quadrants, also learning the word Manichean! Anyway, I am reminded of definitions of plot I&#039;ve read which exclude or at least pooh-pooh the &quot;string of events&quot; approach to writing fiction, suggesting that this type of writing does not qualify as a plot because it lacks an overall story arc and therefore lacks purposefulness.

Is an episodic book simply a string of events? I think the key is to look for a subtler type of arc in these cases. This is one reason it&#039;s such a good idea to separate the episodic issue from the question of good vs. evil and a book&#039;s central conflict. (Thanks, J.L. Bell!)

Of course, not every story arc is highly dramatic. I should say, not every story arc NEEDS to be highly dramatic. I&#039;m thinking of a book by Hilary McKay, The Exiles. It&#039;s not as good as her more recent books about the Casson family (which I adore), but it&#039;s an example of what I&#039;m talking about: four sisters go to spend the summer with their grandmother, and the story is episodic in the sense that it gives us a series of escapades; however, there&#039;s a quieter overall arc having to do with the girls&#039; relationship with their grandmother.

On a related note, weren&#039;t Charles Dickens&#039; books written/published episodically? I&#039;m also remembering Richard Peck&#039;s books, A Year Down Yonder and A Long Way from Chicago, as examples of episodic fiction. Of course, all stories are episodic to some extent, scene following scene following scene, so I guess we&#039;re really talking about whether the scenes/episodes drive (or derive from) one another. There&#039;s a range of possible levels of connectedness, as Bell also indicated!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the four quadrants, also learning the word Manichean! Anyway, I am reminded of definitions of plot I&#8217;ve read which exclude or at least pooh-pooh the &#8220;string of events&#8221; approach to writing fiction, suggesting that this type of writing does not qualify as a plot because it lacks an overall story arc and therefore lacks purposefulness.</p>
<p>Is an episodic book simply a string of events? I think the key is to look for a subtler type of arc in these cases. This is one reason it&#8217;s such a good idea to separate the episodic issue from the question of good vs. evil and a book&#8217;s central conflict. (Thanks, J.L. Bell!)</p>
<p>Of course, not every story arc is highly dramatic. I should say, not every story arc NEEDS to be highly dramatic. I&#8217;m thinking of a book by Hilary McKay, The Exiles. It&#8217;s not as good as her more recent books about the Casson family (which I adore), but it&#8217;s an example of what I&#8217;m talking about: four sisters go to spend the summer with their grandmother, and the story is episodic in the sense that it gives us a series of escapades; however, there&#8217;s a quieter overall arc having to do with the girls&#8217; relationship with their grandmother.</p>
<p>On a related note, weren&#8217;t Charles Dickens&#8217; books written/published episodically? I&#8217;m also remembering Richard Peck&#8217;s books, A Year Down Yonder and A Long Way from Chicago, as examples of episodic fiction. Of course, all stories are episodic to some extent, scene following scene following scene, so I guess we&#8217;re really talking about whether the scenes/episodes drive (or derive from) one another. There&#8217;s a range of possible levels of connectedness, as Bell also indicated!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: R.J. Anderson</title>
		<link>http://laurelsnyder.com/2009/06/27/epic-versus-episodic/comment-page-1/#comment-2344</link>
		<dc:creator>R.J. Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 00:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurelsnyder.com/?p=436#comment-2344</guid>
		<description>Aren&#039;t the SERIES OF UNFORTUNATE EVENTS books episodic, really?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aren&#8217;t the SERIES OF UNFORTUNATE EVENTS books episodic, really?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: J. L. Bell</title>
		<link>http://laurelsnyder.com/2009/06/27/epic-versus-episodic/comment-page-1/#comment-2342</link>
		<dc:creator>J. L. Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:33:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurelsnyder.com/?p=436#comment-2342</guid>
		<description>For new episodic and Manichean fantasy stories, the place to look is in serial fiction: comic books and TV shows!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For new episodic and Manichean fantasy stories, the place to look is in serial fiction: comic books and TV shows!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: laurel</title>
		<link>http://laurelsnyder.com/2009/06/27/epic-versus-episodic/comment-page-1/#comment-2341</link>
		<dc:creator>laurel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:02:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurelsnyder.com/?p=436#comment-2341</guid>
		<description>Oh, this is very good, very useful. I like the quadrants!!!!

I wonder how many episodic and Manichean books we could find that are new....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, this is very good, very useful. I like the quadrants!!!!</p>
<p>I wonder how many episodic and Manichean books we could find that are new&#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: GeraniumCat</title>
		<link>http://laurelsnyder.com/2009/06/27/epic-versus-episodic/comment-page-1/#comment-2340</link>
		<dc:creator>GeraniumCat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurelsnyder.com/?p=436#comment-2340</guid>
		<description>I came over here from Charlotte&#039;s blog, where I&#039;d mentioned Nesbit and Boston, and also Barbara Sleigh&#039;s Carbonel, which I think sort of fits the category - certainly the tone is right; maybe also Alison Uttley&#039;s A Traveller in Time. The oldest examples I can think of are Kingsley&#039;s The Water Babies and McDonald&#039;s At The Back of the North Wind, but Kipling&#039;s Puck of Pook&#039;s Hill and Rewards and Fairies are definitely episodic, as is The Midnight Folk (Masefield). Looking back through my list of 101 children&#039;s books (on my blog)I hesitated over Dr Doolittle - again, I think the tone is right, but one of the reasons why I liked the Narnia Chronicles so much was that it *felt* domestic even if the universe *was* at stake. Oh, I see Laurel has already mentioned them...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I came over here from Charlotte&#8217;s blog, where I&#8217;d mentioned Nesbit and Boston, and also Barbara Sleigh&#8217;s Carbonel, which I think sort of fits the category &#8211; certainly the tone is right; maybe also Alison Uttley&#8217;s A Traveller in Time. The oldest examples I can think of are Kingsley&#8217;s The Water Babies and McDonald&#8217;s At The Back of the North Wind, but Kipling&#8217;s Puck of Pook&#8217;s Hill and Rewards and Fairies are definitely episodic, as is The Midnight Folk (Masefield). Looking back through my list of 101 children&#8217;s books (on my blog)I hesitated over Dr Doolittle &#8211; again, I think the tone is right, but one of the reasons why I liked the Narnia Chronicles so much was that it *felt* domestic even if the universe *was* at stake. Oh, I see Laurel has already mentioned them&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: J. L. Bell</title>
		<link>http://laurelsnyder.com/2009/06/27/epic-versus-episodic/comment-page-1/#comment-2339</link>
		<dc:creator>J. L. Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:43:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurelsnyder.com/?p=436#comment-2339</guid>
		<description>I see two different distinctions here. One is between books with a sustained, unified conflict and resolution and books that consist of a series of linked but largely independent events. In the former, everything relates to the main plot; in extreme examples of the latter, pieces could be taken out or rearranged without affecting the whole. I wish I could come up with an alliterative pairing, but for now I have the distinction of unified and episodic.

The other is between books that are based on a worldview of Good v. Evil and/or involve the Fate of the World and books that take place on a smaller, often personal or domestic scale. I&#039;d like to call that distinction as between Manichean and mundane, except not enough people know what &quot;Manichean&quot; means (seeing the universe in dualistic terms, good versus evil).

Those two axes create four quadrants: unified and Manichean (&lt;i&gt;The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe&lt;/i&gt;), episodic and Manichean (&lt;i&gt;Divine Comedy&lt;/i&gt;), unified and mundane (&lt;i&gt;James and the Giant Peach&lt;/i&gt;), episodic and mundane (&lt;i&gt;Half Magic&lt;/i&gt;).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see two different distinctions here. One is between books with a sustained, unified conflict and resolution and books that consist of a series of linked but largely independent events. In the former, everything relates to the main plot; in extreme examples of the latter, pieces could be taken out or rearranged without affecting the whole. I wish I could come up with an alliterative pairing, but for now I have the distinction of unified and episodic.</p>
<p>The other is between books that are based on a worldview of Good v. Evil and/or involve the Fate of the World and books that take place on a smaller, often personal or domestic scale. I&#8217;d like to call that distinction as between Manichean and mundane, except not enough people know what &#8220;Manichean&#8221; means (seeing the universe in dualistic terms, good versus evil).</p>
<p>Those two axes create four quadrants: unified and Manichean (<i>The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe</i>), episodic and Manichean (<i>Divine Comedy</i>), unified and mundane (<i>James and the Giant Peach</i>), episodic and mundane (<i>Half Magic</i>).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Laurel Snyder</title>
		<link>http://laurelsnyder.com/2009/06/27/epic-versus-episodic/comment-page-1/#comment-2337</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurel Snyder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:25:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurelsnyder.com/?p=436#comment-2337</guid>
		<description>Fair enough.  I&#039;ve pondered this, and I think you&#039;re right. But I think the issue isn&#039;t so much that the books I&#039;m calling &quot;episodic&quot; don&#039;t differ from the books I&#039;m calling &quot;epic&quot;. Rather that the casual use of the word epic neglects much of the true definition.

The Odyssey *is* both epic and episodic.  But many books today to which &quot;epic&quot; gets applied don&#039;t follow the original definition.

Sort of like the way we abuse the term &quot;tragic&quot; today.

So maybe we need a better term to indicate a kind of HUGE arc, a big climax, the universe at stake.  &quot;Episodic&quot; versus &quot;???&quot;

Help me out!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough.  I&#8217;ve pondered this, and I think you&#8217;re right. But I think the issue isn&#8217;t so much that the books I&#8217;m calling &#8220;episodic&#8221; don&#8217;t differ from the books I&#8217;m calling &#8220;epic&#8221;. Rather that the casual use of the word epic neglects much of the true definition.</p>
<p>The Odyssey *is* both epic and episodic.  But many books today to which &#8220;epic&#8221; gets applied don&#8217;t follow the original definition.</p>
<p>Sort of like the way we abuse the term &#8220;tragic&#8221; today.</p>
<p>So maybe we need a better term to indicate a kind of HUGE arc, a big climax, the universe at stake.  &#8220;Episodic&#8221; versus &#8220;???&#8221;</p>
<p>Help me out!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Heidi Estrin</title>
		<link>http://laurelsnyder.com/2009/06/27/epic-versus-episodic/comment-page-1/#comment-2333</link>
		<dc:creator>Heidi Estrin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 20:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurelsnyder.com/?p=436#comment-2333</guid>
		<description>How about Linnets and Valerians?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about Linnets and Valerians?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
